Innovating EdTech - Bo Stjerne Thomsen

Our interview with Bo Stjerne Thomsen can be found here:

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Episode Transcription

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Bo Stjerne Thomsen: Hello! I am Bo Stjerne Thomsen I am the chair of learning through play in the LEGO foundation. It means that I lead our work to develop and disseminate our research on creativity, play, and learning.

Benjamin: It's 90 years this year. Congratulations. LEGO has kind of stood the test of time for so long. Maybe you can share, like, is there something that, sets it apart?

Bo Stjerne Thomsen: Absolutely. I think. And thank you for your passion for LEGO and LEGO play. I think that kind of passion is built on a sustained family ownership, where there is a shared mission across all LEGO entities to inspire and develop children through these types of playful experiences. And they have very strong values based on creativity. That learning should be fun that it should be a caring and imaginative process.

And that kind of, of, of values and family ownership comes through in how we collaborate, how we do our meetings in the, in the foundation, across the company, and how we do our work with partners. And then I think it also about, about this ambition, we all have to truly keep innovating and establishing this relationship between play and learning.

It is something that shouldn't be separated, but we should all be inspired by, by children's natural urge to kind of explore to experiment. And we do that by always thinking about which kind of playful activities we can role model in the organization, ourself we play agents in the company also.

So that kind of partly value, but also practical ways of being playful in the organization is something that kind of sustains that mindset throughout I think generations.

Benjamin: Yeah, incredible. I was recently at Legoland this past weekend with my daughter she's five years old, we went on the Emits ride in Denmark. And there's this setup there in the queue and just a pile of LEGO. And then there's a wild thing on top give kids a chance to like build whatever creation. And it was very interesting to see my daughter, you know, using the different LEGO and just creating an original idea for a character. I was blown away at the creativity that she was able to use just with play.

So, I wonder if this is something you're seeing on a regular basis that, you know, you're trying to instill in kids?

Bo Stjerne Thomsen: Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that experience. It's absolutely what we hope that, that families see and, and, and do much more because what we have seen as some of the unique things about the playful tools, so to speak the LEGO bricks as a system is that you can build anything that you can dream, that you can literally transform an idea into a physical manifestation of that idea, but you can also take it apart and rebuilding it into something new.

So that process of using the materials to build, to test and try out ideas is also how we learn and develop by, you know, trying to articulate our thinking in, in practical materials and it's, you know, been shown through research it's also kind of an evolutionary mechanism of our survival because we need to kind of test our way of being creative to problem solve, to deal with change, so that's something that is kind of embodied in that kind of material as a, as a LEGO brick and a LEGO system. And then what we also see is exactly as you described that the LEGO system, the LEGO company needs to be very much in tune with and listen to what children and families really care for.

So the stories, the themes, and the characters need to resonate and use that as a platform for their own types of imagination and new ideas. So the combination of the physical material and that ability to spark the imagination and play with is something that is unique to that kind of idea, in the work.

Benjamin: It's incredible how this toy has or this set of toys. I, I suppose you know, is, is changing the way that we are for at least for me, the way that I imagine the world and en engage with the world, as well as like create with the world and these, these aspects, I wonder if there's some kind of LEGO designs that really blew you away or really in inspired you?

Bo Stjerne Thomsen: I get to, to meet a lot of both ideas that not necessarily comes into the marketplace, but also exist whether in LEGO bricks and other materials, and there's a ton of ideas and, and many of the ideas that I'm mostly inspired about are actually the ones created by the fans.

So some of these ideas actually realized through what is called LEGO idea products. So some of these products are, you know, a LEGO physical book. You can open up, you can build the book and you can open and close it. That's also this little ship you can build in a bottle. So LEGO ideas.

A product that is come up from the fan community is loaded up by the fans and then it's manufactured and, and produced and you know, there's this little bottle that you can build LEGO bricks on the ship inside it. And one of the new ones I just built myself is a liquid typewriter.

So think about literally a typewriter where you can use the keys and so forth, like in real life. So, my main kind of aspiration is really when LEGO bricks become part of everyday life and reality. A lot of the new things that I find inspiring is also the ways that LEGO materials are now used in robotics.

I've seen amazing. Machines being built out of LEGO Mindstorms and LEGO spike prime is, are new robotics, like you know, robots that can solve rubrics cubes where it's robots use sensors from the system to measure, environmental features. So anyways that the ecosystem is used in new ways by the fans I think is hugely inspiring.

Benjamin: So you've been involved with, with LEGO for, I noticed that I think 10 years or more, can you share like maybe some of the education or learning highlights throughout your career?

Bo Stjerne Thomsen: Absolutely. Yeah. I've been with the LEGO entities for about. 11, 12 years right now and the majority of my work has been in the LEGO Foundation, and one of the key things we have been trying to illustrate is the unique value of play when children are on the move when they are in really constraint settings like refugee camps or don't have the safety and security and joy of play. So some of that work has been, in partnering with someone like Sesame workshop, where we literally use and create play spaces in environments where children don't have a lot of resources.

And what they literally do is take these materials and provide them as an opportunity to express their ideas, their feelings, and their thoughts and then they rebuild trust in the environment because the world is literally falling apart around them, whether it's a social relationship, the physical environments they're in, but they use materials, both LEGO bricks, and other materials to rebuild their sense of the world. Like how they want the world to look and how they can establish trust. So that's a hundred million program in different parts of the world.

I am also truly inspired by the way, we can illustrate how learning education is truly a hands-on very practical experience. So for instance, in South Africa, we have manipulatives in the classroom to truly engage any child. Sometimes the case experience is often passive where children sit isolated, alone, listening only. But if you give children a wide range of materials, they're actually able to contribute and engage much more with multiple senses. And it's something we also to take into teacher education right now.

So in our view of the world, teachers are educated with an abundance of different types of materials. So for instance, teachers in Denmark now have play labs at the teacher colleges. They are taught to use different types of materials to articulate their pedagogy. And they are taught to experiment and test and try out new ideas because learning is not a linear process.

It's about, you know, trying different strategies, learning in different ways. And then finally I'd say one of our new areas, which I feel is extremely important right now is the new ways of using play also LEGO bricks for children and families with no divergence, so ADHD, autism, visual impairment, because we've seen that play is truly a way to diversify and personalize experiences to truly make it meaningful for the individual. So we are seeing such a lot of excitement and opportunities around where plays can be used for, for children that are, that are very diverse.

Benjamin: So pretend that I'm unfamiliar. Could you like explain more like playful learning as a concept?

Bo Stjerne Thomsen: Absolutely. So, so playful learning from our work is based, on research, on science that illustrates that the best way to sustain one's engagement and interest no matter what it is is if you enjoy.

So that's the main power of play if you are engaged in play, you are completely immersed deeply in an activity. And it also means you're deeply immersed in learning something new. So play is really an enabler of your sustained attention and, and engagement. So when you think about learning new things, whether it's reading a book or trying to solve a problem, or you know, dealing with mathematics, It's truly about supporting that type of engagement.

And that's based on, you know, attuning to what's meaningful to that child. Interesting to that child. It's a process of being active, not sitting passive, and it's something that truly supports collaboration and not just individual competition.

So playful learning is about supporting that type of process where you are deeply engaged, enjoy, and being curious about, what you are immersed in and you find the opportunity to test and try out new strategies. And when you do that, you are actually much more able to remember what you are engaged in because you are emotionally invested and you enjoy it. So you actually, your knowledge sticks much more, to you for, for the long term, but you are also using a broad, a broader range of skills.

It's not only about the content, and the knowledge you engage with, but you are collaborating with others. You are emotionally immersed, so you have to regulate your stress levels. And you are often collaborating with others. So in that sense, we see that playful learning is really the only way to learn deeply and practically be sustained interest.

Benjamin: So in a recent article, you were, you were writing that creating learning systems enables kids to thrive and this is key for society to focus on building now, as well as in the future. Can you tell me more about this?

Bo Stjerne Thomsen: Absolutely. So what we have seen over decades now is that learning systems have often been focused only on the grades and the academic curriculum and content. But what we really see as important is we also focus on the opportunity to engage children and students. So that means we need to focus systems on creating a joy of learning new things.

That was, that is what has the most longevity because we can kind of teach children to remember things very quickly, whether it's concepts or principles or knowledge, but if you're not able to sustain their own interest in learning new things and their skills to, you know, deal with new knowledge being critical singers and being creative, that will not be relevant for how the work looks like and how societal challenges are right now.

So, so the learning systems need to keep that kind of active engagement of students and children at the core. And then it needs to support multiple paths, and need to be flexible enough that the students can try different strategies when they learn to be able to reflect and improve as they, as they continue the process of learning because they need to be lifelong learners need to continue learning even when they're out of school or, or, or later in life. So, that's kind of where we are now anchoring learning systems around a new metric for how learning looks like and supports a more personalized journey for your education.

Benjamin: Do you think this will be like a big mindset shift?

Bo Stjerne Thomsen: I think it is absolutely a, a mindset shift because what we have now in our new research with, for instance, the world economic forum, that collaborative problem solving for instance is one of the key skills being requested by governments and companies.

And it actually, if one supports education where students are much more collaborating and solving problems. It will raise the GDP, the gross domestic product of a nation, much more than that only focus on knowledge acquisition so the research is in place to argue for a different process of learning and education.

But it's a mindset. It's a mindset shift in how we were taught in our schools, which were probably quite traditional as we have been taught for the past century where it's more like isolated individually competitive. You know, I often think about the ways my kind of work environment is right now then compared to education and thinking what, what would happen if my manager already knew the answer to what I was doing and just was expecting me to, kind of achieve that goal that you already knew that's that would be the experience of getting to a classroom right now.

Right? You know, students know that teachers have the answer and they're just trying to have a guessing game and figure out well, how to get to that solution. That's not how the world is. You know, the world is trying to figure out new ideas to solve problems, critically reflect on information, and so forth.

So, so we really need that shift in, in, in how learning is actually fun when it's challenging. Things are exciting when it's new, not when it is foreseeable. So what we are trying to figure out is really nurturing that kind of shift across different stakeholders.

Benjamin: How do you think that collaboration between parents, teachers and policymakers can like be achieved?

Bo Stjerne Thomsen: So the main kind of the main way to create that type of collaboration we have seen from the research is to talk about our shared beliefs so right now we are doing beliefs mapping and what it means is basically three, five questions to each of the stakeholders to say, "what are your ambitions and vision for education?"

Is it something that's mostly academic? Is it about something that supports societal purpose and impact? Is it about individual development? It's about social collaboration and emotional learning. If we can talk about what our beliefs are about education. We are much more able to collaborate. And what you see is actually, if we have the same kind of belief.

We will also shift towards having shared ambition for the type of educational experiences we have in school, out of school online. So that's what we are trying to drive right now is a conversation around these types of ambitions and the main way to achieve the collaboration of seen also is to help teachers and schools illustrate how these new practices look like that learning is actually about solving problems.

It's about dealing with real-life projects. It's about having real-life experiences where you test and try out things. And teachers will then help parents describe these to describe these experiences to parents and they will help try to illustrate to governments that actually is achievable because there seems to be a positive movement right now, but it's really what you say. It's around establishing that type of mindset and, and collaboration between the different stakeholders.

Benjamin: Do you think that this is a potential next, industrial revolution? These learning systems are the way that we are changing our minds, mindsets, and encouraging kids, even at a young, young age to learn and, and learn through play, do you think this will spark some next revolution in the industry?

Bo Stjerne Thomsen: I absolutely think that is critical to the next innovations that we will see in, in society. I think many are very concerned about the climate changes the massive disruptions in the political climate right now, and, you know, resources and so forth.

But all of that comes back to how we educate future generations. Could reflect to solve problems, to have a, a more empathetic understanding of each other and the environment and the future of the economy lies in the ability to educate children, young people to keep learning and to keep solving problems and being creative with new solutions.

So, so not only is it a huge market that is emerging right now because everyone needs to learn in new ways and keep learning whether it's a child, student, or adult. But it's also something that it is an enabler for anything else in society, to truly deal with these challenges we have right now.

I think that generally as we are looking and coming out of the pandemic. What we've seen as one of the key factors of education right now is sustained engagement. It's been very difficult for many schools and teachers to sustain engagement because children and students and young people have been much more independent.

And I think that's gonna be the, the new conditions for education going forward is if you're not able to sustain engagement and. You know, young people actively engaged, you know, they will just switch off and they will choose something else that's more exciting. So, so this process of play and creating a more joyful form of education is aligned not only with what the new revolution will be for how we learn, but also with a more individualized form of education.

Benjamin: What would you say you are learning most, these days?

Bo Stjerne Thomsen: So I, I just moved to the US living in Boston just a year ago. So I am extremely excited to dive into a slightly different culture from my own Scandinavian background. I learn a lot about education systems. I learn a lot about the underlying inequities that are in how we've built up systems for play and learning right now.

What are the kinds of resources and opportunities we, we give to children and families, and I'm particularly excited to learn about how we can use you know, the informal environments, the science centers, the outdoor all kind of really deeply interesting immersive experiences combining physical and digital, which we haven't necessarily understood as core to formal education, but which I see as will be critical going forward.

So I learned a ton right now. I speak to a ton of different people and try to figure out what are the next steps in, the post-pandemic era.

Benjamin: I'm excited to find out what that will be. Do you have any shoutouts or something you want to promote?

Bo Stjerne Thomsen: I think we are right now very much focused on creating our new play movement. So if you follow the LEGO Foundation right now, and our website on learning through play, we are sparking excitement around the ways that families can engage in playful activities around the world and how they can engage communities.

So so follow that work building a world of play it's called. So anyway that that one can, can help demonstrate and, and you know, try ideas for that campaign would be very exciting. And that's why that's where we are heading right now. We also work with a ton of different partners across many different countries, but I think that building a positive you know, motivating picture around how play can truly change education in our own lives, I think is, is one of the key things we hope to, to put much more force behind.

Resources / Articles / Links Mentioned In The Episode

• LEGO Foundation: https://learningthroughplay.com
• LEGO Ideas: https://ideas.lego.com/
• Sesame Workshop Partnership: https://www.sesameworkshop.org/press-room/press-releases/lego-foundation-awards-100-million-sesame-workshop-bring-power-learning
• Learning Through Play: https://learningthroughplay.com/explore-the-research/the-scientific-case-for-learning-through-play/

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